| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
116
   |
Posted - 2015.11.02 04:13:11 -
[1] - Quote
Have them become the structure hub we have to destroy for occupancy to trade hands. This would limit how many there will be and how central they are, or when they can become vulnerable to attack. I did not read anything on where exactly these are going to be allowed to anchor or how ownership is determined. By Corp would make the best spread. I cannot see how a large number of these in low can be good for FW..
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
116
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 05:37:58 -
[2] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Have them become the structure hub we have to destroy for occupancy to trade hands. This would limit how many there will be and how central they are, or when they can become vulnerable to attack. I did not read anything on where exactly these are going to be allowed to anchor or how ownership is determined. By Corp would make the best spread. I cannot see how a large number of these in low can be good for FW.. They can be anchored anywhere. They are owned by corporations but will have more granularity. They can also be made public for docking and use of the market and other services.
What is the delay for reputation changes? From public to non, for example, and will assets be forfeit? Can they be un-anchored? Will owners of assets be informed when these changes occur?
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
116
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 19:20:11 -
[3] - Quote
Having zero restrictions to however many can be built or who can build them is significant. It can impact the war zone tremendously and even make some current very good docking restrictions meaningless. That would be unfortunate, as docking privileges and being able to refit is such a big deal and is one of the best things to happen in FW. Completely unrestricted is bad. Bad for FW and bad for lowsec. We already get visitors from null that swing their numbers around. We've done our best to fight smarter.
Secondly, if these are tied to system bonuses, you must imagine their should be one per system. Not restrictive at all, as any entity would be ready with a poco gantry when one is being destroyed; you can assume it could work similarly when a system flips. Association with the ihub itself is only reasonable at this point. As for alienation of neutrals, they need not live in FW space. There is a lot more lowsec out there, but accessibility flies in the face of functionality: What purpose do these really have in a system that has ideal, and public, stations already? The idea that the ihub can shoot back at you is so mind blowing that it could give new meaning to what a home system is and who lives there. Their value can only be respected if you also link its vulnerability to the system contestation mechanics. Losing a home, our besieging one, becomes that much more personal. I can see no greater impact these can have, if they are given a dull PoS existence. It offers nothing new to FW, while adding a fun pi+Ķata FOR non-FW entities, which would make them not worth deploying. Better to have a titan for bridging.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
116
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 19:49:15 -
[4] - Quote
per wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Having zero restrictions to however many can be built or who can build them is significant. It can impact the war zone tremendously and even make some current very good docking restrictions meaningless. That would be unfortunate, as docking privileges and being able to refit is such a big deal and is one of the best things to happen in FW. Completely unrestricted is bad. Bad for FW and bad for lowsec. . do you mind poses by any chance?
PoS require fuel. It is an expensive luxury and benefit. The modules/attachments to Citadels use the fuel. No mention of shields on the thing, like PoS. A pos can be removed in two days. These, I think, were meant to be much harder to destroy. The assets safety feature is nice, but what if there is no station in system? Ah, and supers.. Where would THEY go when one is destroyed?
While they share many aspects, they are more similar to stations than to PoS's at this point, if they don't just replace them with all the services that can make them better than a station.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 14:18:16 -
[5] - Quote
I have not seen any arguments in favor of where you can anchor these, how many you can anchor, except for that they will be cool to launch an offensive campaign from. The rest has been unspecific approval, ambiguous and unhelpful, even if made from unicorn farts. The negative implications are very clear.
If we can only anchor one per system, within the war zone, then it must be tired to faction sov and the location must be singular: Sun or IHub. If it is the ihub, it might as well take its place and become awesome.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.07 16:38:49 -
[6] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:I have not seen any arguments in favor of where you can anchor these, how many you can anchor, except for that they will be cool to launch an offensive campaign from. The rest has been unspecific approval, ambiguous and unhelpful, even if made from unicorn farts. The negative implications are very clear.
If we can only anchor one per system, within the war zone, then it must be tired to faction sov and the location must be singular: Sun or IHub. If it is the ihub, it might as well take its place and become awesome. Again, wrong line of thought. This can be easily exploited. Only one per system for the owning faction? Great, Snuff's Gal and Cal alt corps will anchor these all over the place, deny docking rights to both militias, have them shoot both militias, then laugh at us.
That would be pretty hilarious. Limit one citadel per Corp and we can thank snuff for giving us a solid extra 6 war zone points after we upgrade the system.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.08 17:00:17 -
[7] - Quote
Le sigh. No one has drawn the connection (were the ihub idea fall through) that these could potentially provide a huge amount of LP for busting. +1 for IHub hats!
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 19:10:06 -
[8] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Le sigh. Has no one drawn the connection (were the ihub idea to fall through) that these could potentially provide an enormous amount of LP for busting. +1 for IHub hats! If they provide too much LP for the other side and no benefit, then all the FW citadels will belong to neutral alt corps. Just saying....
How can you say it has no benefit? Docking and every single station service you can imagine. Oh top of that, you slap guns on it and drop modules to affordable prices for those you allow to dock. The benefits are clear. The strategic value is there. Making them FW specific structures means there are no neutral Citadels in FW lowsec. They will either be orange or blue.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 21:24:11 -
[9] - Quote
+1 for ihub hats!
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.12 02:18:31 -
[10] - Quote
And the greatest benefit of all: The fights they will bring.
Their introduction, in any other way, with any other ridiculous vulnerability window, will be a poor whimper by comparison; they will be a distraction instead of a focus. A bothersome structure grid instead of a sentinel of death and home. Oh well. Maybe I'm the only one that sees it.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.12 11:52:57 -
[11] - Quote
If there is no station in system, the assets should be forfeit.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 16:57:42 -
[12] - Quote
vov It's eve. We like to make people lose things..
Besides. I still think the proliferation of these things is a detriment to FW, in that it introduces a foreign structure that completely ***** on home field advantages. Why should we even have docking restrictions with these present? A tower always created a kind of sadistic convenience; pos are hard to use and quickly ship out of in comparison to a station, which this thing is superior to in every way. Not integrating them into the body of FW, as I've said, makes them arbitrary and something of a nuisance. They will completely ruin the importance geography plays in war. That is a bad thing that reduces content quality and diversity. Sacrificing strategy and tactful thinking for the sake of new stuff is not good. Why can't you see that?
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 19:12:06 -
[13] - Quote
I desperately entreat CCP to deeply consider allowing these Tu function as POS in FW. If you are urged to create a thread to discuss the difficulties of new players coming into FW, you must see also how this structure, where it's headed, completely topples the balance in favor high SP and established entities to such a degree that there will not be an opposing forces that can dock in even the CLOSEST militia lowsec system. Only pity and laziness will keep this from happening.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
117
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 20:49:17 -
[14] - Quote
On the other hand, if these can be made to bloom out of the ihub upon deployment when it is busted out after, it could turn out positive results that are the opposite of all this bad. Limit placement to one per Corp and small groups would flourish throughout the war zone, creating little homes for their militia gang. This can echo in null. It would be such a great thing instead of such a cluster **** of new problems and making so many other things obsolete.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
118
|
Posted - 2015.11.16 18:57:25 -
[15] - Quote
As Andre said. Any response en masse for coordinated attacks will never be coordinated well out of a tower. There is too much time wasted with people unfamiliar with tower mechanics, standings, and security issues. The Citadel bypasses all of this, with a clone bay to boot. Even without any additional bonuses that have not been decided, these change the landscape of system sieges that actually were fun. I say were because I am pretty sure the squid is right in saying these will roll out as they have been presented. But I already voted with my feet when no one listened about the t3d's in smalls when the stats for the Svipul were released. Once can be a mistake, but twice and we see exactly what the t3d's were intended to become or how good. I even called how interceptors would troll null when the requirements for the entosis links were released. It's not hard to see ahead with some things. Giving Null timer roll backs but neglecting the same-case scenario patch for FW is a pretty sore thing to do. I'm a much bigger advocate for dual separate timers. This is much more constructive and positive when faced with a bloated timer, which will still be present with the rollbacks.
This two steps forwards one step back dance is not endearing at all.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
118
|
Posted - 2015.11.18 15:07:41 -
[16] - Quote
The docking restriction should be by restriction of sov and not ownership. Being the only ones restricted from docking in ANY other Citadel that is non-FW could impede participation in non-FW fleets that have nothing to do with FW.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
119
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 05:28:04 -
[17] - Quote
Tl; Dr Would the Pavanakka campaign have taken place were Citadels in effect?
We very nearly had heated discussion about this in comms the other night (or morning?), but we were quickly hushed by our superior FC. Good ol' Jetstream seemed uncharacteristically edgy this campaign, but our FC's pulled us through some great fights. Mad respect.
Anyway, the argument began about enthusiasm for Citadels. As surely as the sun rises, I pounce as the devil's advocate and comment about this entire campaign not existing were Citadels in place. I was quickly refuted, but with yet again fruitless arguments without any substance.
The points I would have made, had the Algos WT fleet not put us into battle comms for the third time of what would be five engagements that hour:
What it's the difference between Pavanakka and Hasmajala when Citadels drop?
Did we, or the Squids, ship out of towers (which were in place) during this campaign?
Location was everything. Pav was a choke point to secure backwaters and an excellent invasion system. Boosters were used and boosters were killed (go Than!). JF's were once again pivotal in resupply. They still will be after Citadels, but I feel much of what makes all of the rest of this tick will no longer be present without the tock: Placement; geography; lockout's
I've tried my best to dump on what I think of Citadels, as they seem atm, Lord knows. I think they are awesome. Just not awesome for FW as they stand. I will continue to bad mouth 'em til I see them presented in a way I feel will be symbiotic with FW (as opposed to collateral objectives with probable, resilient, pita bonuses), and the great fun we are having during these pushes.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
120
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 20:47:14 -
[18] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:tl; dr: Would the Pavanakka campaign have taken place were Citadels in effect? Very likely.
In a way, you may be right. Mostly, I believe, because of the emotional attachment many of these systems have for us, but for no other reason. Once this begins to dawn on others, home systems will start to lose significance, unless the docking restriction is set in place. Even then, losing a system, and, consqeuently, docking rights to your own Citadel, will be laughably lame. They will be placed in bordering lowsec non-fw systems to avoid this when possible, and then what would be the reason for this thread? As I've said, there is no real solution to the docking restriction, and even though we all want one to be present, chances are the system will be free-game. That will be the worst outcome for FW related sov fighting. The most significant geographical (astrographical?) significance after Citadels will be cyno jump range.
+1 for iHub Hats. It's the only way!
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
120
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 21:07:01 -
[19] - Quote
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x172/NerikK/-1_zpse739ed2d.jpg
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
129
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 17:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
@Rinai
Once again, so many alternatives must be considered, so many circumstances and loops, restrictions and added work to make sense of these having the ability to drop anchor just anywhere.
With a mind for the future, what are peoples thoughts on it when they are greenlit for Null, or other parts of space? Much like what happened with assault frigates when T3D's came into FW, I fear that Eve will shoot itself in the foot with its new toys. PoS will serve only for moon mining? A smaller specialized structure is then requested. Stations people were proud to build, irrelevant after Citadels unless you require one to be present in system for item relocation. I'm sure so many people are eager to get out of their capital coffins, but this is a critical step that can dull everything by outshining it, or become a central force which all things encircle.
Citadels can be huge for Eve. Placement over the ihub (in FW or Null) like an alien superstructure over a pyramid, makes everything so much easier to understand. The progress to their vulnerability transparent and bearing a sense of finality that vulnerability windows can never offer.
iHub Hats is the only way.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
|
Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
129
|
Posted - 2015.12.29 17:40:43 -
[21] - Quote
You want to see the militias become more coherent? Give them this in the way over the iHub and you'll see them invigorated towards assaults and cohesion in forming to defend their own. Making true the saying I heard after Alparena returned to our hands last night, "If you build it, they will come."
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
|
| |
|